Tracking with Diane Logie, Johannesburg

Imagine losing your pet and not knowing where to start looking, how to face the overwhelming emotions, or how to navigate the intricacies of pet search. This episode highlights Diane Logie, a dedicated missing responder from South Africa who has devoted herself to helping people in these challenging situations. Join us to explore the captivating world of pet rescue as Diane shares her thrilling experiences of successful pet rescue missions, her unique dog training methods, and more.

The episode takes an interesting turn as Diane opens us to the art of dog training and tracking. She shares her unconventional methods of training dogs to find cats versus missing people, and you'll be amazed to hear about her adventures in the field. Diane provides an exciting glimpse into her work, discussing the various predators they encounter in rural areas, the challenges of long-distance drives, and the invaluable role her retired therapy dog plays in pet searches.

In the final segment, we explore the controversial use of drones for tracking missing dogs. Diane gives an honest account of the potential dangers and stresses on the importance of strategic drone usage. A vital aspect we cover is the urgency in locating a missing pet and how acting within 72 hours can often mean the difference between despair and relief. Our discussions prompt us to appreciate the significance of community effort in locating missing pets and emphasize responsible pet ownership. Get ready for an insightful, heart-touching, and invaluable guide to missing-pet response and search-dog training. Join us and let Diane's stories inspire you.
Recorded July 23, 2023.

"No Place Like Home" is a podcast about missing pets. I feature content from owners, finders, volunteers, and professionals.

I always appreciate a rating and review on your podcast app and a follow on Facebook, where you can find the show at nplhmitch. Find episodes, transcripts, and additional information at noplacelikehome.show.

If you have questions or feedback, you can contact me at nplhmitch@gmail.com.

Remember to always think missing, not stray or dumped.

This podcast was created, hosted, recorded, and produced by me, Mitch Bernard. The opinions expressed on this show are those of the people expressing them and do not necessarily represent the views of any other entity.

Chapters

• 0:00 Missing Pets and Search Dog Training
• 8:43 Dog Training and Tracking Success
• 21:04 Discussing Pet Predators and Search Strategies
• 35:38 Timely Response in Animal Search Importance
• 42:42 Drones' Controversy in Finding Missing Dogs
• 49:43 Podcast by Mitch Brunard

Transcript

Diane Logie (00:00):
I know I'm ready

Mitch Bernard (00:03):
<laugh>. All right. So, um, I would like to, uh, I, we just started recording. Hope. That's okay.

Diane Logie (00:10):
That's perfect. That's cool.

Mitch Bernard (00:11):
I'm gonna give a little welcome and then we'll get started. Okay, cool. Awesome. Welcome to No Place Like Home, the podcast about missing pets. Today I'm recording from my home in Barry, Vermont while fly on the Wall studio downtown, where we usually record recovers from the recent flooding. I'm your host, Mitch Bernard, and today we'll be talking about missing pets on the other side of the world. So let's get started. I'm excited to have with me Diane Logie, a missing pet responder in South Africa. I know Diane through the Missing Animal Response Network, and she's gonna share her experiences, responding to cases there. We're gonna talk about some memorable cases, which I know she's had quite a few of even recently. And tell us about some things that might be different in South America, responding to missing pets than say in central Vermont. So, welcome Diane.

Diane Logie (01:02):
Thank you very much. Thanks for having me on your show. It's a

Mitch Bernard (01:05):
<crosstalk>. Oh, I'm so glad to have you. Um, you know, we've talked a lot on Facebook through the network that we're in, but, um, I'm not sure that we've, I guess, well, were we in the same class? I can't remember. No, no, no.

Diane Logie (01:17):
With the Zoom. No, I did a, I did a self-paced class. 'cause of the time difference here.

Mitch Bernard (01:21):
Right, right. That's right. So, um, well, I would love to, um, get started with like, if you wanna tell us about some of these recent cases you worked on. Uh, you've had quite a few successes recently.

Diane Logie (01:35):
Few. Um, yeah, so I'm, I'm, I suppose, I dunno whether it's luck or it's, uh, it's my dogs. I think it's, it's the dogs. Um, definitely the dogs. Yeah. Uh, so, yeah. Um, we've had a lot of successes. In fact, um, in the last, the reason I was running a bit late this evening is 'cause I've just come home from another success, believe it or not.

Mitch Bernard (01:57):
Oh my gosh.

Diane Logie (01:59):
Yeah. So it's one of those, those ones that we don't actually like, um, we all want the happy endings. Um, I was on a cat search, um, getting very frustrated 'cause the cat has just gone poof. And I was just said to them, I'll come back in the morning when it's daylight. And I got called to one, um, about 10 minutes from my home. Um, border Collie. Um, never leaves the yard, um, and disappeared to face the earth. And I immediately took out axle, even though he just worked. Um, he's one of my more experienced dogs. Um, so I figured, you know what, even though he's just had a, a cat search, I'm gonna, I'm gonna use him because this is a tricky one. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And, um, my gut feeling was that the animal hadn't left the yard. Um, even though the owner had searched thoroughly, I mean, she'd done a really good job, um, sadly, um, with Axel indicated, um, gave me a bit of a decomp indication. Well, he gave me a decomp indication, and, um, I found the dog, uh, deceased in some thick bamboo. Oh. Um, so yeah. So it's not the kind of find that us as, uh, responders like to have.

Mitch Bernard (03:06):
No, um,

Diane Logie (03:07):
And it's not something we'd like to talk about, but it's a reality of our job. It's, um,

Mitch Bernard (03:11):
Yeah. And for our listener, decomp is decomposition, which is a different kind of, um, tracking. Some dogs don't do both live searches and decom searches, but Diane has, how many dogs do you have?

Diane Logie (03:26):
Uh, that's a good question. Um, I've got two, um, fully trained, and then I'm, I'm working three trainees, so, yeah.

Mitch Bernard (03:34):
Wow, that's amazing. So this must be your full-time gig, like you don't have a different job in addition to

Diane Logie (03:40):
This? No, no. This is, this is my, my 24 hour jo, uh, day job. Um, I don't have a different gig.

Mitch Bernard (03:46):
Yeah. Wow. Um, and did you train both of the dogs that you have now? Uh, and have you trained dogs before them or?

Diane Logie (03:56):
So? So my background is, um, actually a graphic design delivered or not. Um, but my, um, training background, I was a dog trainer, and then I started getting involved in human search and rescue. Uh, so both of my fully trained dogs are, um, originally search and rescue dogs. So, um, it was a transition, um, from the one to the other for them. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, so, um, sorry, let me just take That's okay.

Mitch Bernard (04:25):
<laugh>,

Diane Logie (04:25):
Treat away from Hailey because she gets a bit grumpy. And then, sorry, I'm gonna talk while

Mitch Bernard (04:29):
Dealing with the No problem at all.

Diane Logie (04:31):
Um, one of my search dogs, Kimberly, uh, would you like to come in the house? Thank you. Um, so my one trainee search dog blog decided he would finally come in the house, <laugh>. Um, so yeah, so Hailey and, uh, sorry. Um, Zu and Axel are, um, trained by myself. It was, uh, when I started it, there was no, um, cat to guide me. Are you still there? Send availability, chat to Cat <inaudible> and everyone. Um, so I had to train, learn. Um, I started with, um, cat's book, uh, dog Detectives, um, and I read it and I was like, you know, it, it's really awesome, but a lot of it doesn't apply to, um, how we work in South Africa. You know, we've got high walls. It's, it's very different. Yeah, let's talk about that. I took, I took what I could and then I, I sort of made a, a plan. And then last year I did my, um, my graduates course. Um, and I started with, um, I started with my dog jet. Um, and then when he passed away, I, uh, he was on lesson five when, when he passed away. Oh. Um,

Mitch Bernard (05:48):
So sorry then.

Diane Logie (05:50):
Thanks. I, that was probably my hardest search ever was for my own search doc. Mm. Um, but then I currently have, um, blob who's just around here in Peanuts, who's somewhere around here. They've probably gone to bed. Um, they're, they're in training with Ka um, life has been a bit busy, so we're a little bit behind, but, um, that's tomorrow's problem. We're gonna do some fun training with them again. So, yeah. So, um, and then I've got Cairo who will start soon with, uh, cat as well. So Yes. I've got,

Mitch Bernard (06:22):
Go ahead.

Diane Logie (06:23):
Yeah, so I've got, I've got the five of them that are my working dogs.

Mitch Bernard (06:27):
That's a lot of work. That's a lot of work. And training these dogs is not easy from what I understand. I mean, I've been through the training course to see like what it would consist of, but I don't have a an appropriate situation to, to do that myself. But talk a little bit about what that training process is like.

Diane Logie (06:45):
So, um, the process is very similar to, um, training a, a dog for missing people. Um, except Cass has got this amazing program where she really breaks it down to simple things. So she teaches, um, the dog how to take scent. So she takes, takes it right from the beginning from teaching it how to sniff, essentially all the way through decomp training. Um, so, so her training is very thorough. Um, with Haley and with Zu, sorry, I'm, um, speaking about Haley 'cause she's right with me. Um, with Zu and Axel, I trained them very much along the, um, principles of human tracking. So that's how they were trained. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So that's teaching them how to find, uh, a person or, and now we, uh, switched over to dogs. And then I have a bit of a different method because, um, I don't have access to cats very much often to train with mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So I use teddy bears. I don't actually have one, uh, here on the desk, but I use teddy bears with, uh, cat. Um, it's maybe a something I can speak it about another time 'cause it's quite in depth. Um, I train using cat fur and teddy bears that look like cats, um, to teach my dogs to find cats. Um, that's, I I do things a bit different mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but it's the work, if you look at my successes I'm having, it's,

Mitch Bernard (08:07):
I think it's incredible. I mean, that's just every post I see is like boom, boom, boom, success, another success. It's terrific. I know.

Diane Logie (08:15):
It's, it's great. So like, it's, it's the dogs. It's, uh, you know, you can only train them so much. Um, sure.

Mitch Bernard (08:23):
But clearly, I mean, as we see over and over again among our own network of, of people who do this kind of work, the training makes all the difference because it's, I mean, one of the reasons I'm gonna talk with probably Carmen about this at some point, uh, in a later episode, but one of the things that we see is that people, um, there are groups of people who have, um, encountered trackers who are not really trackers. They take their dog out and the dog looks like it's tracking something. His nose is down, it's following a path that's excited. Uh, and so to the lay person, um, it looks like something's happening. And, uh, they can tell the owner anything and they can really, the owner is in a incredibly vulnerable position 'cause they just want their baby back and they, you know, would do anything to get them back.

(09:17):
And, uh, what we have to fight against what people like you have to fight against is that stigma that, um, so that people don't believe that all trackers are just out there, you know, letting their dogs sniff that you really can, um, locate what you say you're gonna locate. Yeah. Um, can you tell me a little bit about how that, um, how you know, and, uh, how your dogs know, how you, I mean, not just during the training process, but like out in the field, if you've had cases where there's just no way that they would've found this animal, if not for your tracking?

Diane Logie (09:58):
Um, yeah. So, um, I'll give you, I've gotta think of a nice example, but, um, so when it comes to knowing each dog is very different with their, with their tells. So, um, my favorite example is my little mixed read Axel, who, um, you've seen a lot of my posts mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, Axel is this little weirdo, um, when he is searching, um, and he's, he's on scent, but he's not like close to unsent. Both of his ears are down if as soon as his proximity alert. So his indication that he's close to and on really strong scent, his one ear goes up <laugh>. It's the funniest thing, like if both ears go up, he's, uh, chasing a bunny or he's found a mouse or something. But one year up is my indication that Axle is really close, that this super strong scent. And that's, that's my tell with Axel. Um, with, um, with Zu, she starts pulling like a freight train. She goes into this bit of a low crouch. Um, and, and then I know, um, that Z is close, um, blob, um, everyone else can tell because eyes start swearing. 'cause he, he's extremely strong <laugh>. He's, um, he's 36 kilograms and just over a year old. So, um, he's a

Mitch Bernard (11:12):
Gobel maybe? Or

Diane Logie (11:13):
No, so he's actually a Blue Tech coonhound cross with the Dutch Shepherd.

Mitch Bernard (11:17):
Oh, okay. Okay. So yeah. So he's a big boy.

Diane Logie (11:20):
He's a big boy. So the, the ham is very strong in him. So yeah, when that nose is down, he's on sense. Um, and when his proximity, uh, alert is when he's really close, um, is when he pulls like a pro train. Um, so I have to be careful what le I use. Otherwise you get rope open. Um, oh

Mitch Bernard (11:38):
Yeah.

Diane Logie (11:40):
People don't think of those things. No.

Mitch Bernard (11:41):
Um,

Diane Logie (11:42):
So yeah, so he, he pull strong and then both him and Axel, when they're right on top of something, they both go vocal. They both, um, blob the, the hound is strong and starts banging. He starts howling. Yeah. And Axel gets super excited. Um, so yeah. Um, every dog is quite, every dog is quite different. Yeah. Um, so a case where we wouldn't have found, um, wow. Um, there's so many. Um, I think tonight's one is one where they would've found it. Um, the smell would've, um, been an indication. Um,

Mitch Bernard (12:19):
So I, I lost you when, um, you were just thinking about a case, an example of something where you're just confident that, uh, and, and the owner, I'm sure was confident that there's just no way that it would've located that animal, if not for your dogs.

Diane Logie (12:35):
So, um, I'm just quickly going through my, my social media here. Um, so perhaps one of my, um, my biggest ones, um, was a dog named Tina. Um, Tina, we got called out. The Caru is 600 odd miles from us. Um, so it's, it's a slight distance. Um, when talking to you guys in the States, always have to convert kilometers to miles, but Okay.

Mitch Bernard (13:02):
Um,

Diane Logie (13:03):
So that's about a 17 hour drive, um, with stops for the dog. Uh, we had called at three o'clock in the afternoon, and at three o'clock in the morning, um, we, we departed. Um, I think I even went to the, the monthly mar meeting that night. Um, yeah, we departed. Um, and we arrived. Um, the dogs had, uh, disappeared and two dogs, Tina and Tommy had disappeared into an area where, um, there is no water. It's extremely hot. Um mm-hmm. It's up to 40, 45 degrees Celsius. Uh, that's what it's like there, there is no water. The, the owners of the, the property have to bring water in. Um, it's that they've got solar, their whole roof is just solar panels for power. Um, it's very remote. And Tina and Tommy had gotten out the day before. Um, they'd chased something we assume, and, um, they disappeared.

(13:57):
And it was a dire situation. We obviously had to respond pretty quickly. And, um, so we got there as soon as we can. And, um, we went out searching. We searched immediately despite the fact that we were all exhausted. And you could tell the dogs were tired. I mean, 17 hours, even though they're resting. Yeah. It's, it's very hard on them. Um, and we searched and, um, we picked up a lot of strong scent pretty quickly. Um, and we went in the opposite direction of where the owners had gone searching. They had assumed that the dogs had gone behind them. Um, we know the trail laid straight down in front of the house. Um, so we, we guessed that, sorry, Hailey making a bed behind me. No

Mitch Bernard (14:39):
Worries.

Diane Logie (14:40):
We guessed that. Um, they chased an antelope, um, down the hill. Um, wow. 'cause there's quite a bit of an antelope called Kudu in the area. Um, yeah. So we found a lot of scent, but it, it got, after two hours of searching, Axel was exhausted. Mm-hmm. Um, um, we had blob with us, but he was quite young. And, um, the dogs were tired. We were tired. And we said to them, you know what? Let's, let's go regroup. Let's get some rest. Um, what we didn't know is that we were probably within 50 meters of the dog. Um, wow. And we, in our training as, um, when we do our, um, field course thing, we learn about, um, a animals following people home. So, you know, you lay your sand trail. And so the weirdest thing is that the only way for this dog to have gotten home was the way that we, there's a lot of fences.

(15:37):
Hmm. The only way for it to have gotten back to the house was to follow our exact trail. Um, we got back to the house and, um, we were just putting our stuff down. We were just resting, and the dogs just went totally wild. And, um, walked up to the front. And here was Tina. Oh my gosh. <crosstalk>. Um, she was Lisa. I, she was, she was hours from death. Um, wow. It, it really and truly, um, her pores were raw. She could not walk. She was severely dehydrated, um, starving. Um, so fortunately I had first medical equipment with me. 'cause the nearest vet was two hours away. Um, so I had pro light, which is, um, um, an energy drink for dogs. It's a, um, liquid replacement mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, so put that in her water. And we said to the owners, just slowly let her have water.

(16:34):
You know? Right. Just syringe. Just, just the basics. And I said, don't feed her fast. I said, little bits of food. Um, and yeah, so it took three days for her to recover. Um, and the only way for her to have been found is because the owners were looking was because of Axel and Blob picking up. Yeah. Um, it's, and I, I'm glad we went out immediately despite how tired we were. I mean, um, I hadn't slept in two days, literally. So, um, yeah. So that was a success. Sadly, we were, we were too late on scene for tummy. Um, I spent the next week, um, I spent the next week searching for Tummy. Um, I was out every morning with the dogs tracking. Um, eventually after having spoken to Cat Ulbricht, I realized that I, I was looking for predecessors. I think you were one of the people who commented on my post as well.

(17:30):
Um, I was, I was doing a predecessor search. I was, I was trying to find a body. So I got early morning, try and track, um, maybe see myself in the kitchen <laugh>. Um, so yeah, so, and then the afternoons and evenings I was looking for jackal, which is, um, like a coyote, a small coyote mm-hmm. <affirmative> and then froze. Um, and the evenings I would go out in my truck and I try and cure any predator, any scavengers. Um, sadly Tommy was never found, um, after a week we called it quits. I, you know, you can't stay on a search for forever. You, you have to make a, um, you have to make a decision as to when to school. It quits. And I absolutely, five days of brutal searching.

Mitch Bernard (18:15):
Yeah. Uh,

Diane Logie (18:16):
I, I called it quits. Um, but that's, that's one where, where the dogs were key to it. It wasn't a walkup find, which everyone thinks is everyone very

Mitch Bernard (18:26):
Uncommon <laugh>. Yeah.

Diane Logie (18:28):
Um, but yeah, so I mean, we, we have lots of walkup vines, but that one, that dog would've been dead if it, it wasn't for us Yeah. Going out. So,

Mitch Bernard (18:37):
Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's fantastic. Um, yeah, it's what's different for cases where there's multiple pets that go, like two cats go missing, or two dogs go missing together like that. Is it common for them to split up or do they So,

Diane Logie (18:52):
No, um, they normally stick together. Okay. So it's very unusual, especially with a, a very bonded pair like that. Yeah. The only reason for them to have split up is that something tragic would've happened had to hap Right. Happened. So, um, obviously either he got bitten by a snake or he was taken by a lipid or something tragic happened to him Yeah. That you left him behind. Um, so usually pets that go missing together are generally found

Mitch Bernard (19:18):
Together. Yeah, that's what I would've thought. So already you knew that something was probably wrong when Tina shown up alone. Yeah. Yeah. That's so hard. Yeah. It's, um, definitely the worst part of the job is the ones with no ending or Yes. With a sad ending. And I, I, I tend to think that the ones that just go unresolved are the hardest. Because there's also this, my experience has been that owners, um, feel guilty about giving up too soon. They think if I had just stuck with it longer, if I had just done this or that other thing, that maybe we would've found him, or if we'd gone out sooner or whatever. And that's just heartbreaking.

Diane Logie (19:59):
Yeah. Um,

Mitch Bernard (20:01):
But, uh, yeah. So tell me about some of these predators that you guys have there that, um, might we not, I, I don't think we've got, uh, at least not in the eastern United States, we don't have a lot of desert, um, in the, in the eastern part of the continent. I don't think so. Um, so,

Diane Logie (20:19):
So, um, believe it or not, we, I mean everyone, um, I, I lived in the states for two years when I was little. And I'll never forget everyone thinking that lions, uh, roam the streets. Um, <laugh> <laugh>, um, it was my, my first impression of kindergarten in America. Um, so they don't, um, I live in a suburban area with high walls. Um, there are no predators around here. Um, so then you get areas where I was, um, earlier where there's jackal. So it's a small dog-like, um, animal mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, they're, they're very cute. Uh, they make a lot of noise. Yeah. But they're scavengers, so the chances of them taking anything big is none. Right. Um, they'll take is a small cat. Um, yeah. But they're in the farm areas, they're in the agricultural side, so, right. Um, we don't really get them in, uh, we don't actually get them in town at all.

(21:13):
I mean, we have about as much predator, uh, predator life as suburban New York kind of thing. Gotcha. Um, except we don't have rivers with coyotes. I mean, it's, it's very, it's very built up. Um, yeah. So, yeah, so we, in the city, we don't have much predators, but when you go out into the, the more open rural areas, um, you've got, um, lots of jackal, you've got lots of snakes. Um, yeah. So those are your biggest predators. Um, then when you go further afield, um, there's another mine graduate. Um, Jess, she, uh, works in Cape Town and they have to deal with leopards in the mountains. Um, they've got the boots, we've got monkeys. But, um, and this, it's a small dog. They're not gonna really mess, but, but bones are a problem, um, in the more rural areas. And Leo are, Leo are obviously a, a huge issue in the more rural areas.

Mitch Bernard (22:07):
Yeah. And you travel pretty far outside. I mean, that 17 hour trip, is that common for you? Like what, what's your typical or what's your farthest

Diane Logie (22:17):
So my furthest was Cape Town, um, which is literally on the other side of the country. Um, so, so that's about an 18 hour drive. Um, that's, that's far <laugh>. Yeah. Um, if you look on a map, I'm in Johannesburg. Cape Town is literally like far. Yeah. So that's the furthest I've traveled, traveled to East London recently, which was 14 hour drive. Um, I've driven to a town called Par Alboa, which, um, if anyone or your listeners know, have heard of the Kruger National Park, it's Sure. It's on, it's on the border of the Kruger National Park. Okay. Um, I was called search for Assignee Cat, um, in Pab Bora. Um, um, so, so I t typically, my, my travel is sort of, the sort of, max search is about 25 miles, um, on a, on a daily basis, sometimes 50 miles. Um, but I generally stay within Johanne degraded Johannesburg region. But, um, I do travel and I mean, my, my truck is geared for me, literally just throwing a bag of clothes in and I can, I can hit. So, um, so yeah, I do travel.

Mitch Bernard (23:27):
Do you usually do all the driving or you must have somebody else who can take over on these, you know, double digit days?

Diane Logie (23:35):
No, I, I do the driving. I live on a lot of Red Bull, um, <laugh>. So they, they should sponsor me 'cause the amount I drink, um, on those trips. Um, but I do the driving. I, I enjoy driving. Yeah. It prepares me for my search. I, I have time to think. Um, yeah,

Mitch Bernard (23:52):
That's true.

Diane Logie (23:53):
That's true. So, so, yeah. So I, I do prefer doing my own driving.

Mitch Bernard (23:58):
And how long have you been doing this?

Diane Logie (24:00):
I've been doing it for three years.

Mitch Bernard (24:02):
Wow. That's amazing. To have that level of, um, experience, expertise, success after that little time. And you're already training three more dogs. Um, wow. That's really impressive. Um, so, um, you said that you don't, you don't get a lot of cat cases. There are not a lot of people with cats or just not nearby, or,

Diane Logie (24:33):
It's actually the opposite. I get, uh, majority of my day is cats. Um, oh yeah. Sorry. It's, it's the complete opposite. I, I search for about two or three cats a day, if not more. Oh my

Mitch Bernard (24:43):
Gosh.

Diane Logie (24:44):
Um, dogs not so many. Um, this week has been weird. I've had a good couple of dogs. Um, Hey Hills, um, <laugh>.

Mitch Bernard (24:53):
Hi baby.

Diane Logie (24:55):
This lemme

Mitch Bernard (24:56):
Introduce you. You, so this

Diane Logie (24:57):
Is Hailey. She, uh, she's a retired therapy dog. She's so cute. And she, she sometimes helps us on cat searches. Yeah. Um, so, or she's known for a hug <inaudible>. Um, what a

Mitch Bernard (25:11):
Sweetie. Very sweet. Um,

Diane Logie (25:13):
So yeah, so we got a lot, a lot of cats,

Mitch Bernard (25:16):
A couple a day. How many cases do you tend to have concurrently? I mean, do you Yeah. Do you have like a one in, one out, don't take another out?

Diane Logie (25:24):
So, so I do a lot of follow-ups. Um, so for example, tomorrow I think I've got three or four follow-ups. So I work a and I don't charge for my, my follow-ups because, you know, I, my thing is I wanna find the animal. Right. Um, so, um, yeah. So I do, I do a lot of, um, a heck of a lot of follow ups. I actually just see one of my clients have been out to four times. It's just made a comment on my Facebook page. Um, so, um, so I do, about 50% of my day is follow-ups. Um, uh, and then I do one or two new cases a day, depends on what there is. Um,

Mitch Bernard (26:04):
And the dogs go with you on some of these follow-ups at least because they're doing additional tracks, right? Yes.

Diane Logie (26:12):
Um, I always have at least three dogs with me. Um, 'cause you never know what you're gonna get during the day. Right, right. Um, so yeah, I'm, I'm very lucky in the fact that I, I've got a fiance who's got a big property. Um, so, um, most of my mal inlaws stay with him and I'll be moving there soon, so. Nice. Um, so I can, at least, I, I, I can swap dogs out. They can have a break. Um, except this one, she stays at home guards everyone. Um, yeah. So do,

Mitch Bernard (26:43):
Does each dog have kind of its own strengths or niche things that it's better at?

Diane Logie (26:48):
So, yeah, so, um, Axel is my most at the moment, my most successful. So if it's anything remotely difficult, um, I put him on it. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, blob being a hound, he, I'd give him the colder tracks because, um, Han's Nose is better. Hey, off please. <laugh>. Um, Han's Nose, Han's nose is better with a, with an older track. Sure. Um, and then I use the Malley for really fresh stuff because they get excited when they smell a fresh, um, scent. Sure. Um, but generally Axel works, he works a little bit more. Um, my founding dog, Zu is semi-retired, so, um, she works selected dog cases only. Um, I've nearly lost her a few times and I just, um, yeah, she got bitten by a snake last year and then got bi uh, twice this year already. Um, she's got a blood-borne disease, which means she gets biliary if, um, even if the, the tick has got the smallest amount of biliary, she'll get it. Okay.

Mitch Bernard (27:49):
Um,

Diane Logie (27:50):
Yeah, it's, she picked it up as a puppy. Um, so she's on a very high protein diet, so she, she comes with me, she's always with me because, well, she's my, my, she's my baby. Yeah. But, um, I use her for select cases. Um, right. So she's, she's my best when it comes to, uh, finding decomposition. So if Axel, one of the others have had a track, and I think it might be a a, a sad ending, then I'll also through out the car and, uh, user.

Mitch Bernard (28:21):
And, um, I know we've talked in our network about how much, um, owners are present for some of these ends of tracks. Like, if you think it's gonna be a decomp situation, um, do you, does that, does the owner go with you generally? Do you Yes. Yeah.

Diane Logie (28:41):
Um, I think we had a debate earlier in the year about whether we should have a owner with us. Yeah. I do like having them because, um, the person's more likely to respond to them. Uh, it also gives you an extra pair of hands if you think about it. True,

Mitch Bernard (28:54):
True. Yeah.

Diane Logie (28:55):
Um, if you, if you find something like that, you don't really want the onus, see, you can just go, just hold my dog for a minute. Right. Pick it out. Um, it's a good tactic to distract the owner. Yeah. Um, he's it this evening. I was like, just hold the axle for a minute. Yeah. Um, so it is a distraction tactic, but, um, they are, they're there when you, even if you have the sad endings, but they're also there for the happy endings.

Mitch Bernard (29:24):
Yeah. It's, um, I mean, it's physically very demanding work. I mean, for you, um, you've gotta be in incredible shape, but a lot of owners are not, you know, they must send somebody with you sometimes if they can't make the

Diane Logie (29:40):
Yeah. So those

Mitch Bernard (29:41):
Dogs get running and they go through difficult terrain and everything.

Diane Logie (29:45):
So sometimes the owners just back off. And, um, I had one, when was it last year, where we were literally crawling through really thick bush. Yeah. And the owner was like, listen, die, I'm gonna admit defeat, but I'm gonna go back to the car now. Right. Um, and my poor malor jet, he was like so confused. 'cause he was like, but you're with us. Like, yeah. But, so the dogs are used to having people follow us, but we understand that not everyone can keep up with us.

Mitch Bernard (30:13):
Yeah. It's, it's difficult. Yeah. And always with the ravines, they're, you know, I guess because animals, at least dogs I guess I understand, tend to gravitate toward water. Yes. And that's obviously gonna be a lot of times in a ravine of some sort. So yeah. Those are the ones that are hell on me. <laugh>,

Diane Logie (30:34):
You know, what

Mitch Bernard (30:34):
Fall every time <laugh>,

Diane Logie (30:36):
I'm very lucky in that I, I have a, a young, she's now a 10 year old who, when I started this, decided that she would get me fit and on the farm she would take me on adventure walks. In other words, she would take me through the thickest ravine bush, she could Wow. And talk to me with crawling. And so we do that, we do that quite regularly. It, it keeps me fit. Um, wow. That's, I, I pride myself in having international, uh, human star fitness standards. Um, nice. You know, you should be able to, um, walk five kilometers with a five kg, um, backpack. So you should be able to, so I, I, I pride myself in the fact that I can walk a five kilometer search with a 10 kilogram bulletproof vest on me. Wow. Um, it's completely insane. But I can, um, but I, I pride myself in my fitness standards because I will do anything

Mitch Bernard (31:29):
To Yeah. I mean, it sounds like you're very de dedicated in every case to make sure. I mean, a lot of what I see, um, you know, we have a wide variety of course, of people skills and trades and, you know, levels of involvement in this work, um, in the network. And, um, a lot of people, uh, in particularly in the, the tracking area, don't, um, make multiple visits, make multiple trips, or if they do, they charge again. Yeah. It's, um, travel or what have you. So, um, one other thing I wanted to ask about too is, uh, around here we've got a lot of Facebook groups for different neighborhoods and communities, and then there's maybe a statewide, um, lost pet group or something like that. And people will network missing pets there. Um, and I know that it makes a big difference in terms of your ability to track the animal, how long the owner waits. Yeah. Is there a cultural difference there that you think Right. People,

Diane Logie (32:39):
So it's very much, it's exactly the same here. There's so many, um, missing pet groups. Um, it's, it's a social media. I'm actually backing off from social media 'cause it gets a bit much, sometimes I'd rather focus on Yeah. What I do best. Yeah. Um, and there's so many different groups, but I do think that there's that cultural thing if I, if I market it on social media long enough, I'll find my dog, um, or find my cat. Yeah. Whereas people don't realize that, especially when it comes to a dog, the sooner you get a tracking dog out Yeah. Um, the better. Um, I'm working on, um, a couple of cases where, um, I've now, well, one case I've now had to say to them, look, um, there's no point in us continuously coming out. Um, we've deployed a drone a few times. Um, it's my latest thing. I now have a, a drone as well. Um, because the, it's been three weeks. Um, and I was called out after a week, and the, the timing is, you know what, you've gotta get out fast. Um, today's case was beautiful. I was phoned within six hours. The result was not so great because we found the animal dead. But at the same sense, we found the animal. Um,

Mitch Bernard (33:58):
But within six hours.

Diane Logie (34:00):
Yeah.

Mitch Bernard (34:00):
Wow.

Diane Logie (34:02):
Those, yeah. So the sooner the better. I mean, I had one this week, and fair enough, we did find it on the property, but they phoned me within hours and I was out there, um, it was Tuesday night, the Wednesday post it. Um, the sooner that someone calls, um, the nearest mark, uh, technician, the better. Yeah. People, I can't express it enough. Like, we'll probably guide you as to what to do before we come out.

Mitch Bernard (34:31):
Right. But

Diane Logie (34:32):
You're on the radar of the mar technician, um, and you've got their attention. You've got someone guiding you, and then if they feel the dog is needed, they're gonna tell you. Um. Right. So yeah,

Mitch Bernard (34:45):
We haven't really talked about that yet on the show, but what are, um, the things that would make calling a dog better or not a tracking dog, um, not a good idea versus call one right away.

Diane Logie (34:59):
So, um, that's, that's a bit of a tricky question, but not really. So if the dog is gone, being gone for a week, um, I would honestly rather check your shelters, um, within 72 hours. I, I think it's, you know, call, call getting a dog. Yeah. Um, where, um, getting a dog as soon as possible, don't wait days. Yeah. Um, that, that makes a huge difference to, to the availability of scent. And also if you think about it, people pick up dogs. Um,

Mitch Bernard (35:31):
Yes.

Diane Logie (35:32):
So, yep.

Mitch Bernard (35:32):
They sure do.

Diane Logie (35:34):
Um, your, your chances of your dog being picked up if phone hours versus weeks. Um, yeah, there's a huge difference. So the sooner, um, we can get out, the better. Um, I, um, as you probably realize this week, I don't care what time it is. Um, so I would rather respond and sacrifice my sleep because time, time matters. Um,

Mitch Bernard (36:00):
Yeah. It magnifies the, the, um, chances that you're gonna have a successful find.

Diane Logie (36:07):
Um, I know Jess and Kayton, um, she's actually worth talking to as well. She, um, she has a very strict limit as to when like, um,

Mitch Bernard (36:17):
Like after so many days, she just won't

Diane Logie (36:19):
Go. Yeah. She's very strict. Um, so she's extreme and she's good. That way she's not gonna waste her time and the client's time. Yeah.

Mitch Bernard (36:28):
Yeah. I mean, because every, you know, I think people maybe might not understand, but you know, each call that you go on, each track that you go on is physically taxing and it takes time away. You know, it's a zero sum game. Yes. If you take, you know, six hours, that's six hours, you can't be doing something else. So, um, I think it's totally appropriate for people who do this kind of thing to set boundaries and say, you know, we're not gonna take that because if something else comes in that's more likely to have success, you know, we wanna be ready to go take

Diane Logie (37:01):
Care that. Yeah. But I, in general, I'm lucky in the fact that people generally do call me pretty quickly mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, and my lifestyle so that I can, people need to remember that not every mark, uh, technician has the lifestyle that I've got. Yeah. Um, that I can just literally, someone phones me, I can go. Yeah. Um, there are my technicians who've got kids,

Mitch Bernard (37:23):
Um, yeah. Kids and full-time jobs and, you know Yeah. All kinds of commitments. So,

Diane Logie (37:28):
So, so there's, there's difference. I mean, so we can't expect everyone to jump like I do. Yeah. I'm more of an exception than, um, the norm because I, I think I'm a bit, I think Kat called me a bit crazy last year with some of the stuff I get up to, but Yeah. Um, that's me. Um,

Mitch Bernard (37:49):
And do you market yourself or has everything just come to you because people hear about your work and they,

Diane Logie (37:56):
So it's, um, a lot of people, if Facebook, uh, they tag me. So I don't actively go and search for work. Um, other people will see a post and they'll tag me Yeah. And get people to phone me. Um, I, I do my marketing by sharing my successes. Um, but you're gonna see in the next couple weeks, um, a bit of a change with my social media mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, I am getting someone else to take it over. I, I wanna focus on what I enjoy. Yeah. Um, I really do not enjoy sitting behind this desk. This desk is my, my nightmare, so I don't wanna sit and do social media when someone else can do it. So, yeah. Um, we're gonna start with more education for the public. Um, great. So, so we're gonna start doing things a little bit different on my page. Um, so that's, in fact, that's like brand new. I actually only met with the guy yesterday, so, um, yeah. So, and so I do, I do most of mine's word of mouth marketing.

Mitch Bernard (38:56):
That's great. I mean, at least that part, you don't have to. 'cause marketing yourself can be one of the hardest things for people who are in business for themselves because their skill isn't doing the thing they're in business for. It's not necessarily marketing. And

Diane Logie (39:08):
Yeah. Look, my background is marketing. So initially that's what I, I spent a lot of time doing. Yeah. Uh, I mean, I, I built up a really nice following on my page. Um, but that was my, my knowledge from my previous company. Um, yeah. I worked for, for the biggest pharmacy, uh, chain in the country, so, oh, nice.

Mitch Bernard (39:29):
Um,

Diane Logie (39:29):
So I had a really nice solid foundation in marketing. Um, so I had a little bit of an advantage. So if any more graduates ever wants a little bit of help with their page, I will happily help them because

Mitch Bernard (39:41):
Oh, that's really nice of you. I'm sure we'll be glad to hear that <laugh>.

Diane Logie (39:45):
Oh yeah. It's important to grow. I mean, if we, we need to work as a community to find the animals. Like if we, yeah. If we work in our silos and just go, me, me, me, um, we're not helping the animals.

Mitch Bernard (39:57):
Yeah. I think that's one of the things that's most helpful about these courses is that you do then afterward have the network accessible to you. And, you know, I see a lot of people on our Facebook groups asking for advice with this kind of case or that kind of case, and, you know, somebody out there has tried everything. Um, yeah. Which brings me to the drone thing that you mentioned. Um, there's some controversy about using drones. I think, um, in terms of, I guess it's not controversy about do you use them or not, but how they're used, um, that people without a lot of experience like you have in dog behavior and particularly missing dog behavior, uh, what are the dangers of somebody in that position? Someone without this kind of training and experience, trying to use a drone to find a, a missing dog.

Diane Logie (40:46):
So a missing dog doesn't act like, uh, a normal dog, in fact. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, I've got behaviorists who've told me that they won't touch a missing dog behavior because it's not their field, because it's so different. You can have Yeah. Super friendly, uh, Jack Russell suddenly turning into an aggressive, horrible dog. Yeah. Who skittish because they're scared. Um, so the, the behavior of a missing pet is very different. So when you put up a drone, um, dogs don't like them. It's a horrible, annoying sound, and the chances of chasing them is great. So I personally won't use a drone. Um, I won't use one initially if I can avoid using one. Right. Um, I'll, um, I, I've flown a drone before for searches, um, and then I thought, I'm not wasting my money, but I've got one case where I actually had to go and buy a small drone because, um, dog tracking is no longer an option. Um, it's just, I'm wasting everyone's time by I, I'd rather cover more ground. And in this case, I'm using the drone strategically. I'm trying to flush the dog so I can see it.

Mitch Bernard (41:54):
Yeah. So,

Diane Logie (41:55):
So I'm actually using the drone as a tool to get the dog out of hiding. Yeah. So you've gotta use it. Very skilled. Um, cat, there was a, a recent, uh, members meeting where drones were discussed and, um, it's drones are, they're not the be all and the end all. Everyone goes, oh, let's get a drone on there. Right. Leave that drone alone, like, keep it in your truck, keep it as boom. Yeah. Um, that's your last resort. Um, unless you've got, um, a thermal imaging drone with, uh, a spotlight, um, that you can deploy at two o'clock in the morning, um,

Mitch Bernard (42:30):
Yeah. And be prepared to actually bring the animal in at that time. Yes. I mean, yeah. I think, um, a lot of the instinct that people have when their pet goes missing is call them, follow them. Look, go look for them. And, you know, that has the same effect, like you were saying that, that they, they feel chased and they will put them on the move. And the danger of that, of course, for our listener is they might head into more difficult territory or terrain, uh, to be located, or they can head toward traffic. That's the big thing. You know, I think, um,

Diane Logie (43:08):
We had a, we had a recent case, um, where, um, we tracked the dog, um, and we immediately realized trapping was the, the, the only option. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, unfortunately, the owners didn't follow my, our advice and they kept chasing, chasing, chasing, um, to the point where they eventually went, okay, maybe dive was right. Um, and they started listening to me and we put up a missy trap, um, and then the dog was spotted. We were literally, we'd done exactly as we're trained, you feed in it, um, the food was being eaten and we were literally setting the trap, baiting the trap when someone spotted the dog. Um, wow. And I said to everyone, okay, cool. Ego's aside, everyone's gonna listen to me. Um, so I kind of like went guys, and I've got the most beautiful video ever where the owner walks out with his other dog, he sits down and the poodle comes out to his other dog. Um, that is how it's supposed to play out. Yeah. Instead of chasing, 'cause we're all like, oh my word. There it is. And they rushed towards it. Yes. In dog box. Yes, of course. Um, took six, it six took six days to capture Sophie. Wow. And she's a pregnant poodle. She should not have been out there in the wilderness Yeah. For six days. Um, so, um, chasing the animal is just, it's a big no-no, just slow down stop. Like literally.

Mitch Bernard (44:35):
Yeah. And the frustration to me is all of those days that they were not listening to you, um, by the time they decide, oh, okay, maybe the stuff we're doing is not working. We'll try the things that Diane's saying to do by then, you know, a lot of the things that would've worked at the beginning are not so effective now. Or, you know, like the, I mean, just the scent trail itself

Diane Logie (44:58):
Yes.

Mitch Bernard (44:59):
Has gone so much colder. So especially, I mean, I know weather can be, uh, it can have an effect and, you know, in these extreme heat areas, that's,

Diane Logie (45:09):
Yeah. I mean, unfortunately in Johannesburg and we have, um, our temperatures are pretty, pretty mild. I mean, I'm sitting middle of winter and it's apparently a really cold night, and I'm not even, my front door is open. Yeah. Um, I'm not freezing. Um, I mean, this is, this isn't Johannesburg. Yeah. But apparently we're expecting, well, we had rain earlier, but they're expecting snow again, but we don't get snow like you guys. So Yeah. It's snowflakes and by the time they hit the ground, they're gone. Yeah. Um, and that happens once every 10 years kind of thing, so we don't get the extreme cold. So, um, but people need to listen. Um, we haven't spent all of our time and money and everything studying what we're doing. I mean, we've got one more experience than I do, um, hence me calling on you and a few others on a regular basis. But people need to understand that when we say don't chase, we're saying it not for any other reason than don't chase <laugh>. Yeah. Um, we're doing it for the safety of the animal.

Mitch Bernard (46:11):
Yeah. Yeah. I think, um, it's just so counter to what your instinct is, especially, you know, with your pet. If you're at home and you call them, usually they're gonna come. I mean, you know what to expect at home. And that behavior just completely changes so much when they're displaced. And I think people just don't appreciate how drastic that changes even for the people they love the most, you know? Yes. Um, well, thank you so, so very much for, um, for coming. This was, so it was nice to just have some one-on-one time with you. Um, I'm just gonna do a little wrap up here, if you can bear with me. Uh, I wanna thank you and our listener for joining us today. Uh, we'll have some links in the show notes, which you can find, along with the resources for owners and finders on the show's face Facebook page, which is N p l H as in No Place like Home, Mitch, all One word. We always appreciate a rating and review on your podcast app and a follow on Facebook. If you have questions or feedback, you can contact me through Facebook or email me at and p l h mitch@gmail.com. Until next week, this is Mitch Bernard, and remember to always think missing, not stray or dumped. This podcast was created, hosted, produced, and recorded by Mitch Bernard. The opinions expressed on the show of those are the people expressing them and do not necessarily represent the views of air doubt, fly on the wall or any other entity. Thank you. <silence>.